News groups

[mc_mc]

Does any one use news.freedom2surf.net to access news groups? I mostly just get timeout errors, but on occasion it does work, so I think I have got the settings correct.

I'm only browsing groups such as comp.unix.programmer and am not downloading large binaries etc.

If not what other (free) servers can people recommend?

Thanks.

[j2fm]

It works fine for me on news.freedom2surf.net but you need to add login details which are the same as your ADSL login.

ADSLnnnnnnn@f2s.gw2


Cheers
Jim J

[Antonio_f2s]

Originally Posted by mc_mc

Does any one use news.freedom2surf.net to access news groups?

I do... I have two different clients set to do this and I must say I do not experience any problems and both clients work OK without errors...

If you would like me to try to replicate your issue send me a PM with your adsl number and I'll have a look... would be interesting to know if you get the time out errors all the time or just at peak hours.

[mc_mc]

Typically the day after I did my post it started working perfectly and has done every time I've tried it since.

So I don't think it was a settings / password issue, but a server availability issue. If it happens again I'll post again. Thanks for listening!

[aln_m]

Originally Posted by mc_mc

Does any one use news.freedom2surf.net to access news groups? I mostly just get timeout errors, but on occasion it does work, so I think I have got the settings correct.

I'm only browsing groups such as comp.unix.programmer and am not downloading large binaries etc.

If not what other (free) servers can people recommend?

Thanks.

F2S are port blocking access to any news server during peak hours so it will not make any difference which news server you are using unless you can find one that responds on non-standard port numbers.

[mc_mc]

Ah, it seems to be down now at 21:41.

[mc_mc]

Okay again now...

At what times do f2s / tiscali typically do their blocking?

[Antonio_f2s]

Originally Posted by mc_mc

Okay again now...

At what times do f2s / tiscali typically do their blocking?

Ok I will say it again.... we do not block any ports. We employ a traffic management policy which preferences interactive traffic over bandwidth heavy non-interactive applications. This policy is in place all day and automatically adjusts to reflect customers bandwith use. If there are not many customers making use of bandwidth for interactive applications such as web-browsing, then more bandwith would be available for bandwidth heavy non-interactive applications like newsgroups.

Traffic management is not to be confused with port blocking.... I use newsgroups myself and I dont have problems connecting to the servers at any time of the day/week.

Have you tried to telnet to the news server on port 119?

[mc_mc]

Okay thanks for the clarification, so I may see bandwidth being throttled but should always still be able to make a connection (without it timing out after 30 seconds). I doubt I'm downloading any more than 1Mb from the newsgroup server in any one day since I only browse text based groups (using Thunderbird).

I've just written a script that attempts to connect to the news-server every 10 minutes and logs the result. It's worked fine for the last 3 hours so I'll wait to see if it starts failing at any point.

[aln_m]

Originally Posted by Antonio_f2s

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Ok I will say it again.... we do not block any ports.

You are port blocking - I am seeing it every day!

We employ a traffic management policy which preferences interactive traffic over bandwidth heavy non-interactive applications.

Traffic shaping would indicate slow downloads and NOT zero data transfer for many hours a day. The fact that text only newsgroups are not heavy bandwidth would also suggest that thottling would not be applied to this type of traffic.

This policy[/COLOR] is in place all day and [COLOR=black]automatically adjusts to reflect customers bandwith use.

I assume that you don't mean MY bandwidth because I only use, on average, a quarter of my paid for limit.

If there are not many customers making use of bandwidth for interactive applications such as web-browsing, then more bandwith would be available for bandwidth heavy non-interactive applications like newsgroups.

Where have you got the idea that text only newsgroups are high bandwidth traffic?

Traffic management is not to be confused with port blocking.... I use newsgroups myself and I dont have problems connecting to the servers at any time of the day/week.

If no traffic flows from anything on port 119 for many hours each day then the port is blocked as far as for obtaining any news articles.

Since I posted a few days back about the problem the news servers worked on Saturday evening for the first time in 3 weeks but come 4pm this Sunday......

Telnet to news.freedom2surf.net, port 119
200 News.GigaNews.Com
503 time out

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:51:14 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:51:29 SNTP: PC clock is correct!
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:01:15 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:01:15 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:01:15 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:01:15 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted


Both the above are repeatable 100% of the time that the restriction to the newsgroups applies.

[mc_mc]

I am seeing the server as being "down" at the moment, Sunday at 18:15. From my log the problem seemed to start around 16:24 (but I only attempt to connect every ten minutes so that time is approximate).

Interestingly the connection to port 119 at news.freedom2surf.net is successful and the server sends "200 News.GigaNews.Com" as a reply. My client then sends "MODE READER" and then expects to get a response back asking for the username. But this is never received from the server and eventually the client times out. Both my test client and Thunderbird are seeing the same error so I don't think it's a problem on my PC.

I'll post again when the server resumes working again.

[aln_m]

Originally Posted by mc_mc

I am seeing the server as being "down" at the moment, Sunday at 18:15. From my log the problem seemed to start around 16:24 (but I only attempt to connect every ten minutes so that time is approximate).

I'll post again when the server resumes working again.

For me news collection was blocked at approx 4pm on Sunday and reinstated approx 10:30pm

Logs from 9pm to 10:30pm showing zero response from the news server during the time the port was blocked (or according to F2S during the time when there was traffic shaping) Username in the following log commented out

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:05:28 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:05:28 NNTP[0] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:05:28 NNTP[0] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:05:43 SNTP: PC clock is correct!
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:28 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:28 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:28 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:28 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:20:28 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:20:28 NNTP[1] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:20:28 NNTP[1] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:30:28 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:30:28 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:30:28 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:30:28 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:35:28 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:35:29 NNTP[2] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:35:29 NNTP[2] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:45:29 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:45:29 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:45:29 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:45:29 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:50:29 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:50:29 NNTP[3] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:50:29 NNTP[3] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:00:30 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:00:30 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:00:30 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:00:30 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:05:29 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:05:29 NNTP[4] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:05:29 NNTP[4] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:15:30 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:15:30 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:15:30 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:15:30 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:20:29 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:20:30 NNTP[5] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:20:30 NNTP[5] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:30:30 Command timed out talking to news machine news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:30:30 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:30:30 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:30:30 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 0 articles fetched, 0 posted
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:29 Collecting Usenet News from news.freedom2surf.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] <- 480 authentication required
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> AUTHINFO USER ADSL01702-------@f2s.gw3
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] <- 381 more authentication required
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> AUTHINFO PASS *****
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] <- 281 news.pipex.net
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> MODE READER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] <- 200 News.GigaNews.Com
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> XHDR Message-ID
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> XOVER
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP uk.tech.digital-tv
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP uk.rec.gardening
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP uk.finance
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP uk.d-i-y
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP uk.food+drink.real-ale
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP alt.autos.ford.focus
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> GROUP uk.telecom.broadband
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:35:30 NNTP[6] -> STAT 1235331684

<list of 340+ downloaded news articles snipped>

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:09 NNTP[6] <- 220 0 <49a1bc5c$0$16167$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:09 NNTP[6] -> QUIT
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:09 NNTP[6] <- 220 0 <70e1feF1m3qiU1@mid.individual.net>
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 NNTP[6] <- 222 0 <c422eb3f-c2c9-4779-9d8a-6690fa5a0f6c@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 NNTP[6] <- 222 0 <c6e4d1fc-fd1d-4870-b2da-7f298aa168af@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 NNTP[6] <- 222 0 <b85fc9f5-22d2-4e13-b234-9a396aed4f8c@m42g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 NNTP[6] <- 222 0 <7b0d212d-6a06-4bbe-8bfd-4a2d8d459a75@i15g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 NNTP[6] <- 205 goodbye
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 News connection to news.freedom2surf.net closed - filing continues
Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:37:11 News from news.freedom2surf.net completed, 349 articles fetched, 0 posted

[mc_mc]

Yes my logs also show things started working at 22:42 approx and so I believe we are both experiencing exactly the same problem, with the f2s (pipex / giganews) server.

[mc_mc]

The server is not responding again tonight, the problem started at 18:32 and it hasn't been fixed yet.

[kmount]

I wonder if the "issue" here is something decided and implemented above Antonio's head within the Tiscali Network itself.

No doubt he'll post back soon.

[aln_m]

Originally Posted by Chaz

I wonder if the "issue" here is something decided and implemented above Antonio's head within the Tiscali Network itself.

No doubt he'll post back soon.

The only issue here is that Antonio lied on two occassions about the F2S port block policy.

And surprise, suprise the port is blocked again tonight!

[Antonio_f2s]

Originally Posted by Chaz
I wonder if the "issue" here is something decided and implemented above Antonio's head within the Tiscali Network itself.

Of course it is decided and implemented above my head how our traffic management policy works....

Originally Posted by aln_m

The only issue here is that Antonio lied on two occassions about the F2S port block policy.

And surprise, suprise the port is blocked again tonight!

The issue here is that by being able to establish a telnet connection to the news server on port 119 it is proven that the port is open.... so not port blocking here...


That you are unable to download any information using newsgroup proves that the traffic management policy is working as intended....


You just may be unlucky and most of the users "sharing" the same bandwidth that you want to use for newsgroups are very busy using the bandwidth for interactive applications....


I am using my newsgroup client right now and I am downloading at over 700 kbps, when I normally would get +1200 kbps outside peak hours... and before anyone say anything..... no, my connection doesn't get special treatment because I work for F2S...

[kmount]

Antonio,

My post wasn't to offend, merely to imply that it might not have been a call made within the f2s management but moreso higher up.

The users having problems here actually getting anything suggests extreme traffic management, almost to the point of blocking given it's only supposed to "slow" and "share" not "stop" and "block".

Guys, given it would appear there's nothing that can be done, I'd suggest migrating.

[Antonio_f2s]

Originally Posted by Chaz

My post wasn't to offend

You didnt offended me

I am truly sorry that some users experience with newsgroups is worst than others but I am afraid that the traffic management policy is here to stay

Originally Posted by Chaz

given it's only supposed to "slow" and "share" not "stop" and "block".

The purpose of the traffic management is to ensure that all of our customers receive the best performance.The policy preferences interactive traffic over bandwidth heavy non-interactive applications so, the more customers that are making use of bandwidth for interactive applications such as web-browsing the less bandwidth that is available for customers that want to use to use bandwidth heavy applications such as P2P and newsgroups.

So, the more customers that want to use the bandwidth available in the "bandwidth heavy applications" pool, the less throughput they are going to get....

Cant really explain it any simpler than that...

Also remember that this policy adjusts automatically, so bandwidth heavy applications user will get a better experience outside peak hours...

[kmount]

I appreciate that but it would appear Tiscali is the only company who's "management" restricts connections outright rather than slows.

[aln_m]

Originally Posted by Antonio_f2s

The issue here is that by being able to establish a telnet connection to the news server on port 119 it is proven that the port is open.... so not port blocking here...

While your legal department may say that being able to see a port means it is not blocked the judge and jury may come to another conclusion if they know that it times out and produces zero traffic for many hours a day.

The port in the way F2S have configured it is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

That you are unable to download any information using newsgroup proves that the traffic management policy is working as intended....

I've gone to the Tiscali main page to read the fair use policy. What is happening to my connection is way beyond what is published there so why are F2S customers being treated differently? Or is the traffic management policy not working?

You just may be unlucky and most of the users "sharing" the same bandwidth that you want to use for newsgroups are very busy using the bandwidth for interactive applications....

According to the Tiscali web site throttling because of high bandwidth usage is applied on a customer by customer basis and not to the whole customer base. Throttling is not zero transfer but slow transfer. This means that F2S have chosen to deliberately block my low bandwidth use of news servers (note plural). My monthly usage usually peaks at 2G/month for all Internet services which is well below my download allocation.

Please explain what caused the restriction to be placed on my account. Or do the number of customers in SE Essex exceed the capacity of F2S to provide any form of quality service and they are port blocking everyone in my area?

I am using my newsgroup client right now and I am downloading at over 700 kbps, when I normally would get +1200 kbps outside peak hours... and before anyone say anything..... no, my connection doesn't get special treatment because I work for F2S...

If you are not getting special treatment it implies that my connection is - and not for my benifit.

[aln_m]

Originally Posted by Antonio_f2s

You didnt offended me

I am truly sorry that some users experience with newsgroups is worst than others but I am afraid that the traffic management policy is here to stay




The purpose of the traffic management is to ensure that all of our customers receive the best performance.The policy preferences interactive traffic over bandwidth heavy non-interactive applications so, the more customers that are making use of bandwidth for interactive applications such as web-browsing the less bandwidth that is available for customers that want to use to use bandwidth heavy applications such as P2P and newsgroups.

So, the more customers that want to use the bandwidth available in the "bandwidth heavy applications" pool, the less throughput they are going to get....

Cant really explain it any simpler than that...

Also remember that this policy adjusts automatically, so bandwidth heavy applications user will get a better experience outside peak hours...

Please explain why you belive that downloading the articles from half a dozen text only newsgroups, which on a good day takes 15sec/day, is considered to be high bandwidth by F2S staff?


Please explain why you believe that ZERO throughput equates to less throughput.

[BazJ]

Had no problems connecting for ages ...

Since Mar found it very difficult to connect. After reading this thread I tried to connect using Outlook Express (keeps waiting another 60 seconds) and Telnet (tries to connect to 200 news.giganews.com and waits) and as above connected to port 119 with the same results.

Clearly something not quite right with F2S failing to provide an advertised service.