Inconsistent line stats from speedtest sites and my router ?

[Jaybee]

I have been on the F2S package for a couple of months with a wireless Billion router.

When I accessed my line stats via the router I have received the following today..........

Upstream 448000
Downstream 3776000

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin 5.0 dB 16 dB
Line Attenuation 55.5 dB 31.5 dB
CRC Errors 1558 28
Latency Interleave Interleave

Does this equate to me having a line speed of approx 4 meg ? I think I add a bit to my downstream speed don't I ?

But when I have done speed tests I have received the following return....

Date06/01/07 16:07:01
Speed Down 1854.05 Kbps ( 1.8 Mbps )
Speed Up 378.26 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )

and from another site..........

Connection speed 1935kbps (with a chart showing a line speed of approx 2 meg).

Now the speedtest sites are obviously consistent but why are they so different to my router stats ?

Also, if I use my connection for the odd bit of surfing but mainly online gaming am I better off having Interleaving On or Off ? If I was downloading movies for example it looks like I only have a speed of 2 meg according to speedtest - they would take forever to download.

Yours thoughts are appreciated as ever

[kmount]

Your sync speed is about 3.5mbit which is fine but its only an indication of your max achievable speed in the real world. It doesn't take anything else into account such as contention at the exchange, etc.

Have you ran tests at all times of the day/night to see if they change?

If regardless of time of day they are static at the exact same speeds, then it could be a stuck profile.

[Jaybee]

Those tests I ran earlier were all approx 4pm so I would have thought the performance would be quite good (not really peak time). I ran tests about 9pm last night and came up with roughly the same results on the speedtests but a little slower.

Oh I see so my router is saying my max line speed is 3.5meg ? Are the downstream and upstream stats not telling me what my actual stats are ? Are the SNR margin, line attenuation and CRC errors good/bad/average for best performance ? I assume I cannot do anything about those ? And Interleave ? Looks like it is turned on for me ? Is this the best option ?

What do you mean stuck profile and how do I resolve this ?

[kmount]

There isn't a 'peak' or 'off peak' these days to be honest since some ISPs say "offpeak" through the night, whereas to be honest everyone queues their downloads for overnight so the definition of offpeak is just wrong.

Anyway,

Upstream 448000 (448k upstream normal)
Downstream 3776000 (3.6mbit downstream)

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin 5.0 dB 16 dB
(SNR at 5dB will prevent downstream 'sync' increasing as BT set a limit at 6dB)

Line Attenuation 55.5 dB 31.5 dB
(Line Attenuation is high, in fact, on those figures you wouldn't be awarded a 2mbit fixed line connection.)

CRC Errors 1558 28
(CRC errors are bad, but unless you notice anything bad happening I wouldn't worry too much.)

Latency Interleave Interleave
Interleave is enabled to try and stabilise the line which ultimately increases your ping a little but 'helps'.


It might be helpful for you to read up MAX and see how it works, but effectively, your sync speed of 3.68mbit is the 'acknowledged' max between your router and the exchange. This means that no matter what, it won't be going any higher.

For the speed to reach that speed, everything else must be tip top, exchange contention etc.

A stuck profile is effectively where things have happened to lower your sync speed and when these have fixed themselves, and your sync has gone back up that the 'profile' hasn't updated thus speeds are limited.

Does this help?

[Jaybee]

Yes it does thanks.

I am quite a way from my exchange but am I right in thinking I am getting 3 meg line speed (I read you have to add approx 0.75 or 1 to the download speed) at moment judging by the speedtests or are these not very accurate anyway ?

Is there nothing I can do for line attenuation and CRC errors so that I can achieve "my max" ? Is this just something I have no control over perhaps caused by distance between me and exchange and quality of my line ?

[kmount]

The line speed/sync is 3.68mbit

If you take off overheads, it could be maybe 3mbit ish.

It would be very beneficial if you could plug your router into the master socket (the test socket behind it would be better...) and see if the stats improve.

[acidtechno]

JayBee, I hope you learnt a lot about MAX the last time you had a long running topic here.

You live quite far from your telephone exchange, like me, you cannot expect much better than what you already get in line and download speeds.

Having interleave enabled will enable you to reach the highest line speed your line can manage at the best performance it can manage. You need interleave on to reduce your disconnections and any errors. If you had your line set to fast then you would experience lots of disconnections, especially in the evening, you will have to live with interleave, it's not bad. Your line is set to interleave because of the distance from your exchange, and possibly because the line is poor somewhere on the route.

If you want to get the very best you can from your set up then,

fit a faceplate filter to your master phone socket
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop...ProductID=3306

this will filter the signal at the closest point to your telephone wires, it will improve your snr and make it more stable so that it does not drift away from 6 too much, and so reducing disconnections, especially in the evening. Attenuation also improved. This will also improve your chances of gaining a higher sync speed and going on to help raise your BT profile.

Another thing to do, is locate your router directly at the master socket, plugging it into your faceplate filter, with a short piece of RJ11 modem cable (usually comes with the router). Doing this will help your snr figures and again your sync speed and speed profile. Attenuation also improved.

You should then use wireless from this point and/or run CAT network cable, because your router is managing your connection at the closest point, lengths of network cable will not affect your speeds or stability.

peak time is usually seen as the busy period when most people are online during the evening and making use of their internet connections, this increases the use of the telephone exchange, causing contention causing download speeds to go lower, you can expect 2mb or lower speeds during this peak evening time depending on your exchange. Being Ashford, I expect it can get very busy and plus net exchange checker shows as red http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/...t=37&plugin=vp

Your sync/line speed will be higher than your download speed because of what your BT profile is set at. You cannot download higher than your profile. You can check your profile using the BT speedtester www.speedtester.bt.com use this at a time that is outside the busy evening period because it has trouble working during that time.

Some things to think about, when making any changes to your set up, disconnect your router once and then make changes to your cabling etc so you don't keep disconnecting your internet connection which will affect your speeds badly if kept connected.

If you think your line speed has gone too low (compared to your average) after a disconnection in the evening, power your router off and on for about 10 minutes in the AM or early afternoon which will cause your router to resync at a higher line speed.

You are now armed with the knowledge to improve your set up, so there are things you can do, your choice

[Jaybee]

Thanks acidtechno. Sorry if people repeated stuff from the last post regarding the difference between line speed and sync speed.

At the moment I have about quite a long extension lead running from the master socket along the floor until it reaches the phone point that my phone line and router is plugged into.

I have read what you say about about the faceplate and positioning the router as close to the master socket as possible but would this make a significant difference bearing in mind how long the broadband signal has travelled from the exchange to my house in the first place if we are talking another 10 feet of cable for arguments sake ?

If I did plug the router straight into main socket and got the faceplate, when you say improve SNR and raise the profile do you mean my upload and download speeds could possibly improve ?

[acidtechno]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

At the moment I have about quite a long extension lead running from the master socket along the floor until it reaches the phone point that my phone line and router is plugged into.

what kind of point is it? a square extension socket on the wall? or is it one of those small sockets that you usually screw onto a skirting board but you have it loose on the floor?

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I have read what you say about about the faceplate and positioning the router as close to the master socket as possible but would this make a significant difference bearing in mind how long the broadband signal has travelled from the exchange to my house in the first place if we are talking another 10 feet of cable for arguments sake ?

It could make a lot of difference.

A phone extension cable, long distance causing you to lose out on extra connection speed.

loose on the floor, low quality, likely to be affected by interference making your line more likely to suffer from disconnections.

Some people could be losing out on possibly 500-1000 Kbps of extra speed.

Originally Posted by Jaybee

If I did plug the router straight into main socket and got the faceplate, when you say improve SNR and raise the profile do you mean my upload and download speeds could possibly improve ?

improving your snr will make your connection more stable, avoiding disconnections

using a combination of faceplate filter, shortest modem cable length to router located near master socket, then using CAT network cable instead to reach your PC (or wireless) then it all helps to enable your router to achieve the highest possible sync speed at your house, it's as close to the outside BT phone wires as it can get.

Check your BT profile at www.speedtester.bt.com

your upload speeds are at their best because MAX is fixed on a 448 Kbps sync speed, so remember that. There are no improvements to be made there.

your download speeds can improve, if your profile with BT gets higher, and the only way it can get higher is if you can achieve a higher sync rate for a certain period of time.

let's say your profile is 3500, you cannot download faster than that, even if you are syncing at 3700. Let's say you make improvements that let you sync above 4000 Kbps. Eventually your profile could rise to 4000 Kbps, which is a 500 Kbps increase in speed, worth it in my opinion.

If you want to try and get as much speed as possible from your connection and making it as stable as possible, then it's worth trying everything. You never know until you try.

[Jaybee]

Thanks again for your comments acidtechno.

Yes it is a socket on the wall above the skirting board. Into the socket goes an extension lead that stretches up the wall, over the top of a porch that it is the corner of the room, down the other side of the door and then accross the bottom of the stairs to a phone point next to where my TV, Xbox360, sky box and land line are. There is a fair bit of extension lead cabletied up on the floor also before it goes into another phone point which has the microfilter in it. The router. sky and land line are of course then connected to the filter. I have a few spare microfilters - I wonder if using a different one would make a difference. I will also try plugging the router straight into the master socket to see if that affects the stats. I have it set up as explained as there is nowhere to put the phone near the master socket and more importantly I had 3 thing sto plug into it that were on the other side of the room. For this reason, I extended the master socket to near the TV to plug my xbox, sky and land line into it (which is behind the TV).

The reason I am looking of ways to improve the sync and download speed is I am going to give downloading movies and music a try. I had my first attempt last night at approx 9pm and the download speed was dropping to extremely slow speeds as the night went on I imagine as it was a busy time and also as my MAX will fluctuate in general anyway. The 3 gig file took about 10/11 hours to download in the end.

[Jaybee]

I have just run some stats with my set up as it is and then right after plugged my router straight into the main socket to compare the results. I have also run 2 speed tests with each set up. Results are as follows :

Current set up

Router Stats

Upstream 448000
Downstream 3200000

Down Up
SNR 6dB 17dB
Line Att 55.5dB 31.5dB
CRC errors 16 0

BBMax Speed Test
Down 2362kbps
Up 376kbps

Think Broadband Speedtest
Down 2369.71kbps
Up 378.23kbps

With router plugged into main socket

Router stats

Up 448000
Down 2874000

Down Up
SNR 9db 16db
Line Att 57.5db 31.5db
CRC errors 62 1

BBmax test

Down 2320 kbps
Up 376 kbps

Think Broadband test

Down 2254kbps
Up 378kbps

Now bearing in mind I did all of this in the space of 10 or so minutes there does not seem to be much difference in the 2 lots of stats. In fact, the results appear to be slightly better with my current set up running an extension lead from the main socket over to where my router is currently.

Am I safe to assume that I am currently optimum performance for considering my circumstances i.e. distance from exchange, line quality etc ?

[acidtechno]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Now bearing in mind I did all of this in the space of 10 or so minutes there does not seem to be much difference in the 2 lots of stats. In fact, the results appear to be slightly better with my current set up running an extension lead from the main socket over to where my router is currently.

When you say main socket, you mean the extension socket near your tv that has sky, xbox and phone plugged into? your set up description said you had a master phone socket leading to an extension socket behind the tv, and then you extended from this extension socket to a 3rd socket to plug your router into.

Connecting at the master telephone socket should give better results but this one test does not show this and it would be better to do such a test in the morning/early afternoon to avoid interference and fluctuating snr. I wonder how many disconnections you caused your line to have during your fiddling also.

There is no way you can believe you are at optimum performance, the router has a longer journey to connect to your exchange where it is now compared to being at the master phone socket.

File sharing, you may have missed the fact that F2S have throttling activated which reduces the speeds of file sharing traffic so you can easily see slow speeds, enabling encryption options in various file sharing programs can help. Beware the risks of doing lots of file sharing with music and movies as it is illegal and it has been known for the music and movie industry to warn and/or take heavy users of such material to court to fine them, usually worse if you are a heavy uploader I think. Using file sharing can easily use up your traffic amount so you have to keep an eye on your traffic use in your F2S members area.

I will prove to you how much the XTE faceplate helped me, I currently have a long extension lead going from the master socket downstairs, all the way upstairs into my bedroom, with the router plugged into the end of it in my bedroom, I've only seen a sync of around 3mb with profile of 2.5. After fitting the faceplate today and connecting directly into that I saw a sync speed increase to 4.4mb, this dropped to 3.7 some point in the evening but once I locate my router downstairs I know I can achieve a more stable connection and if I stay above 4mb which I am confident then I can get my profile up to 3.5.

I do have a master socket in my bedroom which I used for a different phone number previously but not anymore - it's now unused, when I used to plug into that I always had over 4mb, so I am confident I can get the same performance with the downstairs master socket.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by acidtechno

When you say main socket, you mean the extension socket near your tv that has sky, xbox and phone plugged into? your set up description said you had a master phone socket leading to an extension socket behind the tv, and then you extended from this extension socket to a 3rd socket to plug your router into.

Connecting at the master telephone socket should give better results but this one test does not show this and it would be better to do such a test in the morning/early afternoon to avoid interference and fluctuating snr. I wonder how many disconnections you caused your line to have during your fiddling also.

There is no way you can believe you are at optimum performance, the router has a longer journey to connect to your exchange where it is now compared to being at the master phone socket.

File sharing, you may have missed the fact that F2S have throttling activated which reduces the speeds of file sharing traffic so you can easily see slow speeds, enabling encryption options in various file sharing programs can help. Beware the risks of doing lots of file sharing with music and movies as it is illegal and it has been known for the music and movie industry to warn and/or take heavy users of such material to court to fine them, usually worse if you are a heavy uploader I think. Using file sharing can easily use up your traffic amount so you have to keep an eye on your traffic use in your F2S members area.

I will prove to you how much the XTE faceplate helped me, I currently have a long extension lead going from the master socket downstairs, all the way upstairs into my bedroom, with the router plugged into the end of it in my bedroom, I've only seen a sync of around 3mb with profile of 2.5. After fitting the faceplate today and connecting directly into that I saw a sync speed increase to 4.4mb, this dropped to 3.7 some point in the evening but once I locate my router downstairs I know I can achieve a more stable connection and if I stay above 4mb which I am confident then I can get my profile up to 3.5.

I do have a master socket in my bedroom which I used for a different phone number previously but not anymore - it's now unused, when I used to plug into that I always had over 4mb, so I am confident I can get the same performance with the downstairs master socket.

Yes - from the main socket I have bog standard phone extension lead running along the wall where is fixed to the wall next to my TV unit. Into that goes a speedtouch microfilter and into that goes my sky box, land line and router. Unfortunately I had to "fiddle" though to run the test.

Yes I am aware that file downloading is illegal but I only going to be the odd bit here due to my line not being mega quick. I am going to do it for a month and then decide whethet to carry on. I did see a thread about throttling yes. Would F2S simply slow down peoples download speeds that are downloading large files over a long period of time ? I will keep an eye on my download history in the members area as I have a current limit of 25gig a month.

The faceplate - I have read the link and understand is does away for the need of a microfilter thus giving a better performance ? If I fit one of these would this then mean the router would have to be situated right next to the main socket ?

[acidtechno]

Sorry, I think I got a little confused before about your set up, I find it easier when I see a diagram, even a simple one made with Paint

You must be on Cascade Home which is £20 a month for 20GB traffic, I'm on the same. Throttling is applied all the time so it doesn't matter what you do with your connection every month, as long as you don't abuse your usage and go over the limit alot and all the time. If you abuse your use then you are likely to be warned first or charged extra (dunno if they have extra charging in place yet still), and eventually if abusive use continued then you could be forced to move to another ISP.

You won't need an external microfilter if using a faceplate filter but equipment at other extension sockets still need to be filtered. If you hardwire any cable that leads to an extension socket into the back of the XTE it can be filtered as description says "IDC terminals on the rear allow connection of additional filtered and unfiltered hardwired telephone extensions."

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

It's best if you locate the router at the master socket with faceplate filter fitted, and then run CAT network cable from there to your PC, or use wireless. Broadband buyer also supply CAT5e cable, I bought some made by Belkin from there.

I suppose you could get another master socket to use as an extension socket and fit a faceplate filter to it, will improve things but probably not as good as having faceplate filter and router on the master.

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm
here you can buy a NTE5 Master Socket.

these recent topics on file sharing/traffic shaping may interest you, one I think you already have read: http://www.freedom2support.net/forum...ead.php?t=8277
http://www.freedom2support.net/forum...ead.php?t=8264

[Jaybee]

As I said I do not intend to be one of those people that leaves their PC downloading each and every night of the week. Judging by how long the download took the other night I don't think I will bother anymore but yes, I have read the threads about file sharing.

I do not think it is going to be feasible to locate the router right next to the master socket as 1) it would have to sit on the floor in the corner of the room and 2) we have a puppy so it would be an invitation to chew the router and/or the wires.

On a separate issue - does it matter if the router is situated near any other electrical applicances for interference reasons (if router interferencce exists ?) ? The reason I ask is my router is sat on top of my xbox 360 and right next to a sky box and dvd recorder. Obviously the router works ok, the pc says the signal is "excellent" but as you know I am not really getting the best out of it.